From: 	 heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com
Sent: 	 Friday, May 9, 1997 1:43 AM
To: 	 Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup
Subject: Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???



heb_roots_chr@mail.geocities.com wrote:
> 
> >FNAME=Lynn
> >LNAME=Kreager
> >COMMENTS=I am wondering if a Christian can become Jewish
> >and keep their belief in Messiah or  if the person must renounce this
> >belief..
> >
> >
> 
> ************************************************************************
> From:          "John Parsons" <vmax@goldengate.net>
> To:            "Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup"
> Subject:       I'm a newbie "rooter"; where do I begin?
> 
> Shalom Mishpakah!
> 
> I am new to the "rooter" group and am excited about learning all I can
> about the Hebrew/Jewish roots of our faith in Y'shua Ha Massiach.  I
> have decided to study Hebrew (thanks to many of you who helped me get
> started on this!) and I hope to begin reading from the Hebrew
> prayerbook soon.
> 
> My question:  What next?  I puchased David Stearn's Jewish New
> Testament (and Commentary) and have begun reading, but I feel like I
> am jumping in mid-stream with you more experienced "rooters."  I know
> nothing about keeping Kosher or becoming Torah observant.... do any of
> you think that I (a non-Jew) should convert to Judaism in order to
> more fully express my faith in Y'shua?
> 
> >From Eddie:
> ***************
> 
>           Should a non-Jew (Christian) convert to Judaism in order to
> more fully express your faith in Y'shua? The answer is NO! NEVER !!!
> 
>            I have seen several reactions among believers when they
> hear / learn about the Hebraic/Jewish roots of Christianity.
> 
> One kind of reaction comes from the traditional church going
> Christian who has been taught and has it firmly planted in his mind
> that "we are not under the law". They then respond, "Why are you trying
> to make me Jewish and why are you doing all those "Jewish things".
> Don't you know that we aren't under the law?"
> 
> Of course, this person only
> understands the Bible through the eyes of the salvation message and
> church tradition concerning the teachings regarding the Torah/law.
> 
> The salvation oriented Christian views "embracing the Hebraic/Roots
> of Christianity" through the eyes of salvation and the CORRECT
> Christian teaching that we are not saved by keeping the law but by
> the grace of G-d. This is TRUE!!  But, what they fail to understand is
> that the ROOTS of Christianity is BIBLICAL Judaism and that
> non-Jewish Bible believers are commanded by G-d to keep the sabbath
> and the Biblical festivals and the ROOTS of Christmas and Easter are
> pagan. These "salvation oriented" Christians fail to understand that
> keeping the sabbath and the Biblical Festivals will be kept by
> believers during the Messianic Age and for all eternity as this is
> how G-d instructed His people to live their lives AFTER they have
> accepted Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah and are saved.
> 
> The second reaction is from Christians who have Jewish hearts and a
> love for Israel and are so swept away by these feelings and so
> overtaken when they understand some of the paganism in Christianity
> and  when they find out that the scriptures are Jewish and how much the
> Bible reveals from understanding it from a Hebraic/Jewish perspective
> that they then begin to think that Judaism is the greatest thing
> since sliced bread and want to convert to Judaism.
> 
> This reaction is just as irrational as the "salvation oriented"
> Christian who rejects the Hebraic/Jewish Roots of Christianity
> because they are "not under the law".
> 
> It is UNTHINKABLE that a person who believes that Yeshua/Jesus is
> Messiah will convert to a faith that does not accept Yeshua/Jesus as
> Messiah.
> 
> If you converted, would you convert to Reform Judaism? Do they
> understand that Reform Judaism rejects that the Bible DIVINELY
> came from G-d? Do they understand that Reform Judaism accepts
> homosexuality and abortion as being OK? Do they understand
> that Reform Judaism doesn't believe in a personal Messiah or a future
> Temple?
> 
> If you converted, would you convert to Orthodox Judaism? Do they
> understand the Orthodox Judaism puts the Oral Law ABOVE the written
> law? Do they understand that Orthodox Judaism will not convert you if
> you believe that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah?
> 
> So, you have a choice of converting to a sect that doesn't believe
> that the Bible DIVINELY came from G-d (Reform) or  to a faith that
> doesn't believe that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah. This doesn't seem like
> a valid and sensible thing to do.
> 
> Yet, the Bible is a Jewish book both OT and NT. Yeshua/Jesus was a
> Torah observant Jew, his disciples were Torah observant Jews, the
> Apostle Paul was a Torah observant Jew. Yet, in order to understand
> the scriptures more fully, you need to understand the customs and
> practices of ancient Israel and Judaism. And Christianity has
> departed from the roots of it's faith.
> 
> So, where is the balance. Understanding the Hebraic/Jewish Roots of
> Christianity should ENHANCE your faith in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah and
> the ways of the Kingdom of Heaven. It should make your Christianity
> more meaningful and more fulfilling.  But, if you begin to learn and
> embrace the Jewish roots of Christianity and then desire to convert
> to Judaism then you may as well never studied the Hebraic/Roots of
> Christianity.
> 
> I need to make myself and these views strong and clear and my heart
> aches when I hear that Christians who believe that Yeshua/Jesus is
> Messiah desire to convert to Judaism as a result of studying the
> Hebraic/Jewish Roots of Christianity.
> 
> In this newsgroup, I distribute at times, Orthodox Jewish teachings
> on the Weekly Torah portion and other series like the Study of
> Jerusalem series and the basics of Judaism series. This is provided
> to help you STUDY and LEARN about the ROOTS of Christianity and to be
> able to understand BOTH the OT and NT from a Jewish mindset NOT for
> the purpose of converting to Judaism.
> 
> Let us embrace MOST of all that Yeshua/Jesus is Messiah and then
> embrace the Hebraic/Jewish roots of our faith to better understand
> HIM and HIS teachings and the ways of the Kingdom of Heaven to make
> our faith as believers in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah more meaningful and
> more fuller.
> 
> >   One last question: Messianics belive in the full deity
> >   of Y'shua, yes?  I mean, is the Trinity a "kosher" concept or a case
> >   of gentilization?
> >
> 
> >From Eddie:
> **************
> 
>         There are NOT three separate God's but God is ECHAD --- He is
> a compound unity that expresses Himself in the form Yeshua/Jesus who
> took upon Himself a human body and in the form of the Holy Spirit
> (Ruach HaKodesh).  Yeshua/Jesus is the MANIFESTED WORD OF G-D. The
> Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) is the MANIFESTED POWER OF G-D.
> Yeshua/Jesus is also G-d manifested in the flesh. He is and claimed
> to be YHVH.
> 
> >
> >It's obvious, I suppose that I am as "a newborn babe, sincerely
> >desiring the Word of Truth."  Any advice for a newbie???  Please
> >reply!
> >
> >
> >Toda raba ba shem Y'shua,
> >
> >John Parsons
> >
> >vmax@goldengate.net
> >
> 
>           II Timothy 2:15 is good advice. It is written:
> 
> "Study to show thyself approved of God, a workman that needs not to
> be ashamed ..."
> 
>           I would also suggest that you read several books:
> 
> #1) Our Father Abraham by Dr. Marvin Wilson
> #2) Jesus and the Original Church by Dr. Ron Moseley
> #3)  Jesus the Jewish Theologian by Dr. Brad Young
> #4) The Seven Festivals of the Messiah and Who is the Bride of
>          Christ? by myself (Eddie Chumney).
> 
>           This should get you started in the right direction if you
> are a beginner.
> 
>                                      Eddie Chumney
> 
***********************************************************************

From:          "John Parsons" <vmax@goldengate.net>
To:            <heb_roots_chr@geocities.com>
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ??

Shalom Eddie,

Thanks for your helpful reply to my question.  God bless you, keep
you, shine upon you!

Ba shem Y'shua,

John Parsons

**************************************************************************

From:          Vaughan Nankivell <vaughan.nankivell@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-to:      vaughan.nankivell@xtra.co.nz
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???


Eddie:

Well said - I think it addresses accurately the feelings of a gentile
believer (such as myself) who returns to a heritage he/she never knew
they had and also maintains a balanced perspective for personal and
spiritual growth in Yeshua.  Thank you for addressing it.

Blessings.

Vaughan.

************************************************************************

From:          peggy <crystal@pcis.net>
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Cc:            crystal@pcis.net
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???


Eddie: 

Thank you for all that you do. I agree with you. just because you have
been given a path and truth does not take away from who you are in the
Messiah. I can no more change the circumstances of my birth nor the
knowledge that was given to me that the O.T. and the N.T was written
by the same loving G-d who does not change. What I can change with the
help of the HolySpirit is my heart by studing and letting HIM teach me
what I should do and not do. I love my Jewish brothers as my own. I am
adopted into the kingdom through the O.T sacrifice of my L-rd. I pray
for Jerusalem as the Word of G-d tells me and I seek to better myself
in the eyes of G-d through study. It's a beginning everyday. My
salvation is not in question  but my intimate walk with Hashem is what
I long to strengthen. I reach  out a hand to my brothers and sisters
not in condemnation (i try) but in Love to show my love of G-d. Which
is greatest? Love thy L-rd thy G-d with all your heart body mind and
soul, Or love your neighbor as you do yourself. Both interact with
each other. How can you outwardly show your love of G-d without doing
the other? It is what G-d's Word is about. I love because HE loves me.
I give because I recieve. Nothing is more fulfilling than this. As you
well know I could go on for hours if not days on this subject. I
follow a Jewish King, L-rd and Master and I am happy. He came that all
should have everlasting life if they believe in HIM. hmmmm nice. 

IN HIM
peggy

************************************************************************

From:          SNUG <SNUG@prodigy.net>
Reply-to:      SNUG@prodigy.net
Organization:  Prodigy Internet
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???


Dear Eddie

Thanks for your answer to John Parsons.  This is the most direct
answer I have heard in terms of your views on conversion to Judaism. 
I am encouraged to read your admonitions against a naive conversion to
Judaism.

I have written a number of times and am completely confused as to why
you would not post my views on this news group.  I understand that
there are extreme differences between bibilical "judaism" and other
judaisms. I have stated that I am very concerned that people who are
coming out of the delusions of Christianity are walking blindly into
the delusions of Judaism - and there are many delusions.  Thank you
for putting some truths out there concerning these delusions and in
some cases, out right lies.

The fact that there are many lies out there concerning the word of God
is not news to God.  He is very clear that there are many "shepherds"
leading people astray.  (I'm sure you know Ezekiel and Jesus' own
words to the Pharisees.)

People are very vulnerable to blindly falling in love with Judaism as
they go through the pains of leaving traditional Christianity.  

Thanks for encouraging a more mature approach to some of the most
difficult decisions that a believer may ever make.

Martha

**************************************************************************

From:          Housedavid@aol.com
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???


Dear Eddie,

I appreciate your wise counsel to the fellow who asked about
converting to Judaism.

It has been our experience that many non-Jews, upon hearing about the
"Jewish roots" of Christianity, begin to think it is "better" to be a
Jew.  Thus, they become "jealous" of the Jew (Isa 11:13).  We find it
helps to make these "jealous" ones aware of the fact that, while First
Century "Jews" did write the New Covenant, the people of Rabbinic
Judaism have had nothing whatever to do with taking forth the truth
that the Holy One of Israel has "given" us His Son.

Instead, the Father ordained that the Israelites whom He destined
would be "scattered" among "every nation," and thus would become the
"fullness of the Gentiles," or the "melo hagoyim"-meaning those of
Ephraim Israel-the Father ordained that they would promote that Gospel
truth  (Gen 48:19; Rom 11; Hos 1-2; 8:8; Amos 9:9).

We find it helps those of non-Jewish Ephraim Israel to understand
that, as the promised "fullness of Gentiles," they too are part of the
people of Israel.  For, when they do see the truth that they too are
part of the Divine plan, then, they do not feel  like second-class
citizens, and they do not feel the need to convert to Judaism in order
to "belong."

These melo hagoyim need to be taught that, as a people, even though
they are guilty of having distorted Messiah's message, still, it has
been for them even as Isaiah prophesied: "Both the houses of
Israel...stumble" over the One who is a "Sanctuary" (Isa 8:14; John
2:19-22).

As you know, we all understand that those of Judah have been "blinded"
to the truth of Messiah, and thus "stumble" over Him (Isa 8:14; Rom
11), and yet we treat them with mercy and respect.  Even so, we need
to encourage those who wish to return to their "Hebraic roots," to
treat those of Ephraim Israel with the same mercy and respect.  For
Ephraim too has been "blinded," albeit with them, it is a blinding to
the truth of their own Israelite roots, as well as to the truths of
Torah (Jer 31:18-19; Gen 48:19; Rom 11:25).

Today, we have two partially blinded peoples: The house of Judah, who
cannot see the truth that Yeshua is the Messiah, and the house of
Ephraim Israel, those who cannot see the truth  of their own Israelite
roots.  Restated, we have one house of Israel that does not Who it is
that they are to celebrate, and another house of Israel that does not
know how to celebrate Him.

To bring total healing and restoration to all Israel, to "the two
families which Yahveh chose" (Jer 33:24), to put the "two sticks" back
together (Eze 37:15-28), we must treat both houses with just weights
and measures, and, we must give credit where credit is due.  And
certainly it is Ephraim Israel who has at least tried to tell the
world about the Father's Son.

Let us encourage them in that, at the very least, they have been
privileged to know Who they are to celebrate.

And speaking of "encouraging" people, please be encouraged in your
efforts to encourage all Israel in their celebration of Messiah.

I Wish You Shalom, Shalom,

Batya Wootten
Director
House of David

**********************************************************************
To:            heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
From:          tstewart@worldchat.com (terry stewart)
Subject:       Re: Should Christians convert to Judaism ???


Dear Eddie,

I really appreciate this news service in general that you provide.
This article is an excellent one you wrote regarding a balanced
approach to studying our hebraic Jewish roots as believers in Messiah
Jesus. The Lord has given me a strong love for the Jewish people, yet
I know that it is because of the finished work of the Cross, what
Jesus did for us, that gives us eternal life. I know also, that the
Holy Spirit has given me a fresh desire to explore the Jewish roots of
Christianity but to always remember that the New Covenant is
established on better promises as in Hebrews 8:6 or 8:8. I do pray for
the peace of Jerusalem regularly. Also, I belong to Hamilton Christian
Fellowship, a charismatic evangelical congregation in the west end of
Hamilton, Ontario. We have a deep love and desire to see the Jewish
people in our city come to know Messiah as Lord. We have about 5,000
Jewish people in Westdale, part of Hamilton, there are a few Messianic
believers among them. Also, at a recent intercessory prayer conference
at Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (Holocaust Memorial weekend
May 3-5) we had prayer for Israel. The Lord wants us to continue to
walk in the New Covenant that He wrote on our hearts at the Cross.
Shalom and blessings in Messiah Jesus, 

Terry Stewart Burlington,
Ontario.

***********************************************************************